The Mind of a Child

[00:00:00] Leslie Corbell: Hello, I'm Leslie Dudley Corbell. And I'm Diane Doucet Matthews, welcome to the Mind of a Child.

We're so glad you've joined us. Diane and I, well, Diane has several grandchildren. I most recently had my very first grandchild, and Diane is expecting another grandchild, and so we were talking and just wanted to do a little episode of encouragement for expectant moms and new moms.

[00:00:35] Diane Matthews: Hearing moms, new moms and expected moms talk about some concerns and some worries.

We wanna encourage you on some different issues. So what's the first one, Leslie?

[00:00:46] Leslie Corbell: One thing I think about a lot is just the, the emotions. Mm. And the feelings that come up. I mean, leading up to the birth of your first child. Mm-hmm. So for new, new and expectant moms, that first [00:01:00] child, and then some of the feelings that come up afterwards and just.

How simultaneously joyful and hard it can be. Mm-hmm. Because your hormones are up and down. I was hoping you were gonna say hormones. Yeah. And you know it, it's a big physical thing to give birth. I think just being prepared for that and knowing that it's okay if you're not in this constant state of bliss.

Yeah, because Instagram will want you to think that, that it's a constant state of bliss when you have a child.

[00:01:32] Diane Matthews: I'm glad you said the word prepared, because I know in a lot of ways I was not prepared, and yet the way people are being prepared nowadays is that. It's just perfect. It's just gonna be fine, and it is gonna be fine.

But there are difficulties to being, to having a child and being a mom, and it's the most beautiful thing in the whole wide world, but it is hard. There [00:02:00] are some things about it that are difficult. I remember my first child. I never, y'all, y'all, I don't know if y'all heard the story or not, but I just didn't want to have children and I never babysat, so I wasn't around children.

I even wasn't even around a lot of women who had had babies. So I wasn't thinking about the pregnancy and after, you know, post pregnancy. And so I gave birth and we could talk a long time about that too, but I'm rolling out. 'cause they put you in a wheelchair and you have to roll out. And somebody, a friend of mine from church who had just given birth was rolling out with me and she had this big grin on her face and she was as skinny as she was before she was pregnant.

And I had this big bump, even though I'd already given birth, you know? So that was one thing that I was like, I cried because it was like, nobody told me that after the baby comes out that you're still gonna have a big old belly, huge belly. It was like, okay. I [00:03:00] guess I didn't ask that question, or nobody told me that it wasn't written anywhere.

So yeah, just to be prepared about things that you just know that's not written anywhere nowadays. So just to know about specific little things that you don't really think about.

[00:03:14] Leslie Corbell: Like you, you crying about it. Yeah. It's, it's okay that you cried about it. Yeah. And it's okay if someone's tired. Yeah. And it's okay if, if something else came up, you don't, there's nothing wrong with you.

You are,

[00:03:25] Diane Matthews: it's normal. It's, it is normal to cry and then to be happy in the same two minutes. Yeah.

[00:03:32] Leslie Corbell: And so I think, I think that would be one way. One thing I would like to encourage, uh, um, expectant moms with.

[00:03:38] Diane Matthews: Yes, I know they have that book. What to Expect When You're Expecting. That's a good book. I mean, I got it.

Did you get that book? Yes, I did. I did. And I'm sure that, well, I know they've had quite a few, uh, additions. Well, they, now they have an app I think for it. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But when you just look at social media. It could hurt you. So I would say be really careful [00:04:00] about what you look at on social media.

[00:04:03] Leslie Corbell: Absolutely. I wish there were a way to block things on social media. Mm-hmm. Because I know that the algorithms sometimes will start giving you content that maybe you don't wanna see. Yeah. You know, your heart's really tender and you don't wanna see. Some oversharing. Mm-hmm. On Instagram, maybe from some, so just be very mindful.

Absolutely. About, about Instagram. So let's

[00:04:23] Diane Matthews: talk about just labor itself. I don't know about you, but I, I didn't have C-sections and I did, uh, the first, the first child I thought, oh, I can do this. I don't need to have an epidural. It'll be fine. What did you do?

[00:04:40] Leslie Corbell: Well, my first one, I had an epidural, but my second one, I progressed so rapidly that I missed the window for the epidural.

I actually preferred the non epidural more over the epidural one. Okay, so you went so fast because of the Pitocin. No, no, just went passed. I just went fast. Okay, great. But [00:05:00] the, I think the thing to be prepared for about the epidural is that your legs are basically numb and you're cold. I remember being freezing, shaken, shake, and shaken, and I couldn't stand and change my child's diaper, my infant's diaper, because I didn't know where my legs were, essentially.

And I really felt like I needed help, whereas without the epidural, I felt very normal very quickly. Yes, that's true. And so. In hindsight,

[00:05:27] Diane Matthews: I preferred it without the epidural. That's, that's good advice. Because if you have the epidural the next morning, you know you wanna get up and take a shower, well, you can't 'cause you can't stand up.

Mm-hmm. You know? Or it depends on what time you gave birth. Yes. And all that stuff. So, yeah. And I understand there are reasons

[00:05:41] Leslie Corbell: that people choose an epidural. I mean, I know it's, it's suggested because if you end up having a C-section, you've already got that in there. I mean, so I know there are other considerations to make.

Yeah. But I'm just saying that in my, yeah. My case, but I will say it was easier.

[00:05:54] Diane Matthews: People are, some people, they're concerned about labor, but [00:06:00] I all, for mine, we had great nurses and the doctors were just above board and they really cared for us. And they brought us popsicles and ice chips and they were very, very helpful.

And even the epidural wasn't painful when they gave it to No, to me, I, I dreaded it. You know, and I was kind of, oh no, but they really do take care of you, so don't be real worried about that. Know that they're there to really make you as comfortable as possible, unlike women 200 years ago or a hundred years ago.

So it's a whole different ball game now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So,

[00:06:40] Leslie Corbell: yeah. And I do remember you saying that reminds me. This was of course 30 years ago, and I opted to keep the infant in the room with me both times. But that first time I, when I couldn't stand to give to change the diaper, I remember calling the nurse in and she just basically came in and said, well, you're gonna have to figure out how to change it sometime.

So [00:07:00] perhaps your nurses. Helped you with that, but, um, mine had tough love. Yeah. Start praying now for a really nice nurse. So what's some other encouragement and things that have been on your, your heart?

[00:07:13] Diane Matthews: Well, um, after the labor, that was one of the things that. I didn't expect, you know, just the, whether you're gonna tear, you're gonna have an episiotomy or you know, how long does it take for you to get back up on your feet, whether you had a c-section.

I can't speak to the C-section, but you know what, I have had quite a few people say, oh, I loved having a c-section. I've had both. C-section was so, so good. I wasn't sore, you know, I could do, I was like, oh God. Well, you know, I don't know, but you are. You know, you are slowed down. I would encourage you not to be sad about that, but I think it really enables you if you're not a person who is comfortable asking for help.[00:08:00]

It makes you ask for help. I mean, you have to have help. Mm-hmm. Thankfully, my husband was very helpful and wanted to help, but some people don't have people to help them that are right there ready to help. You need help 'cause you're gonna be sore and they give you all the little stuff to take care of your yourself, but it, it's painful for a while.

[00:08:24] Leslie Corbell: Some foods that are really helpful, I think to take new parents are egg casseroles, and that's because a couple, and they may have other children, but they're not gonna be able to finish the casserole in one night. People typically take for suppers for new families, so the egg casserole is so helpful because then the mother who needs protein has breakfast.

She has lunch, she has snacks, and so hands up for whoever brought the egg casserole to my daughter.

[00:08:55] Diane Matthews: Excellent. Okay. You know what? I think that's a great segue into [00:09:00] meal trains and visitations. Number one, cheers to to meal trains. Love 'em. Love em, love them. Sign up for 'em. They're so, so helpful. Egg casseroles are great.

That's great. Yeah, that was very, very helpful. I will say this though, for our first and second child. The visits were way too long, like people came with their whole families and camped out. That was not. Helpful. But I think people nowadays don't do that Now. They know even in the, on the meal trains drop the food off because that's been, the boundaries have been drawn mm-hmm.

On that one. Yeah. So no visitation, which helpful. So, and even if, um, someone is staying along longer than you'd need for them to, and you're in pain, it's okay for you as the new mom to stand up. Walk out and go lay down and let your husband take care of them and ask them to leave. They'll understand.

[00:10:00] They'll understand. So yeah, so long visits not good, and you have the authority to ask them to leave.

[00:10:09] Leslie Corbell: Another thing that I, and, and this is a recipe, a, a friend of mine, a young lady, gave a recipe to me for my daughter of lactation bars. And they were these wonderful protein packed peanut butter bar that my daughter snacked on with her yogurt, high protein yogurt.

And just another thing if you're gonna be a nursing mom, had a lot of ingredients that really helped with that. That's a great one. It's a fantastic, so all, all of those types of things I think are helpful to take to That's a good of new families. That's a good

[00:10:41] Diane Matthews: idea.

[00:10:42] Leslie Corbell: But you know what's another thing that I think about too, that kind of going back to that Instagram idea and social media.

Milestones. Mm. I think there is so much pressure today. We had the book What To Expect, when to Expecting, and you had to read through the book to find out what you wanted. You weren't just [00:11:00] barraged with information. Yes. Right. And so I think it's really good caution to. Not get too, not feel pressured by these milestones that people post, or helpful tips or the way to help your child meet this next milestone.

'cause there's two pieces of that. But yeah. What do you, well, I was gonna say name some of the milestones that you're thinking about, like when they're first born. Holding their head up, tummy time, cooing. I mean, just all of the little infant. Yeah. Eyes. Eyes fixed on you. They first laughed eyes on you. Yes.

You know, just anything like that. Anything like that, but especially tummy time. Yeah. Because there's been a change that I just wanna kind of talk about, you know, of course when I don't know about your older child, but when. My children were born, it was side sleeping and so I don't know if you had tummy inside or back or what, but it's, of course it's back sleeping now.

Yeah. But with this, ours was tummy. Okay. And mine was was side. I mean, now that

[00:11:49] Diane Matthews: you're, you're killing your child if you put 'em on their tummy. And it's, and that's what we did to all our kids. And it's back

[00:11:54] Leslie Corbell: now. Yeah. So with that, since children, since infants are spending so much time on their back. [00:12:00] There's this big emphasis on tummy time.

Mm-hmm. You must give your child X amount of minutes on tummy time and it, and there was so much pressure. Well, if you're not giving your child 45 minutes by this age, step up. Come on, come on. And I, I thought that was really hard because as, as I recall, the big focus was giving your child back time play well.

Yeah. Because they different sleeps positions. Right. So you gave them time on their back to play. But here's my thinking about it, is. Infants spend a lot, need to spend some focused wake time on their backs so that they can exercise their arms and their legs. They're kicking, they're moving, you know, they're all bunched up and so they're starting to stretch out.

And so a lot of those things do take place before they have tummy time. Mm-hmm. Strength at all. They're

[00:12:46] Diane Matthews: sleeping on their back. They're not moving on their back. Right. They need to do that also when they're, yeah. Right. And so

[00:12:51] Leslie Corbell: I think just that whole idea of don't pressure yourself so much to give so much time.

[00:12:58] Diane Matthews: Tummy time. [00:13:00] Okay. Yeah. Think about it. Human beings have been developing just fine for how many years?

[00:13:07] Leslie Corbell: Yeah.

[00:13:08] Diane Matthews: And they've developed just fine. And they weren't meeting all these milestones. You know, kids have been fine, you know, so a couple of the young moms I just talked to, they were saying that their babies' heads were real large.

Measuring really large. Well, think of that child. He's not gonna be able to hold his head up. Right, right. At the same time that another child is, I mean, the milestones are gonna be met so different from one child to another.

[00:13:36] Leslie Corbell: Yes. And

[00:13:37] Diane Matthews: with

[00:13:37] Leslie Corbell: that, I'm glad you said that because Yeah. You know also with that idea.

Every milestone is met day by day, moment by moment. And so if we start, if maybe a baby's supposed to hit this milestone at, let's see, six weeks, well, we start practicing for it at four weeks. There's so much growth and development that happens within that two week period of times. I know.

[00:13:58] Diane Matthews: Were you aware of all the milestones when [00:14:00] you were

[00:14:00] Leslie Corbell: Not to the extent that I think moms are today because of social media, it's so available and there's so many people

[00:14:06] Diane Matthews: posting.

I, I didn't think about milestones. Yeah. I was surviving with four young ones. It was like, we just gotta eat and clean and, you know, but you're right. Instagram now, it shoots fear into these young ones. Yes.

[00:14:20] Leslie Corbell: So I would say, and I think it, I mean, I do think it is, you know, good to have an awareness of it and be interacting with your child on a daily basis, observing what they're doing, helping them, you know, just encouraging them.

Yes. But, and, and if you have concerns. Write them down on a little piece of paper for your next doctor's visit. Well, that's what I was gonna say. If ask your pediatrician, talk to your pediatrician about

[00:14:42] Diane Matthews: it. If you're going, if you're going to your, well baby checks and I did have lists. Mm-hmm. When I went to my, well baby check I did that too.

They're gonna let you know, you know, leave it to the professionals. Yeah. Yeah. But don't, you know, don't worry. Mm-hmm. And, and stew on it so much. But I agree. Just be present with your child. Yeah. [00:15:00] That can really keep you spinning and then it takes away from your time being present with your child. Mm-hmm.

Let's talk about germs with people visiting. Was that an issue? Have you heard anybody talk about that? I would say yes. That that seems to be something that comes up. Yeah. Um, a lot I've heard, uh, a couple of families with a newborn, they wanted their families to get certain vaccines before their family could come visit the newborn.

Now, I was not like that. I mean, I just wanted family, you know, so. Do you have anything to say about that?

[00:15:38] Leslie Corbell: No, I would, I would really say just let the parents decide Yeah. What, what works for them. I, I wouldn't wanna give advice one way or the other on that. Yeah. Neither. Because I know people come to it with different reasons behind the choices that they make on that.

That's true. And so I wouldn't wanna encourage one way or the other and

[00:15:54] Diane Matthews: even

[00:15:54] Leslie Corbell: do what helps you feel comfortable. Yeah.

[00:15:56] Diane Matthews: Close family members. In the home, you know, wash [00:16:00] hands.

[00:16:00] Leslie Corbell: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:01] Diane Matthews: You know, you don't want the little kids with their, you know, snotty noses and stuff in the face. That, that was an issue that was brought up.

Just germ control.

[00:16:10] Leslie Corbell: Yeah. I probably was pretty loose. Yeah. I was too along, things like that. But I understand that people have different beliefs. Yeah.

[00:16:18] Diane Matthews: What about post? Um. Postpartum postpartum depression.

[00:16:25] Leslie Corbell: Yeah, I, I would. It's real. It's real. It is real. It's also true that you've been through a lot, your body's been through a lot, your hormones going everywhere, and I think sometimes people feel like they can't.

Say that. Mm-hmm. Or that there's something wrong with them if they say that. And so I think being encouraged to talk to someone about it. Yes. Because sometimes talking about something and getting it outside of you

[00:16:50] Diane Matthews: Yeah.

[00:16:50] Leslie Corbell: Just makes it so much more manageable. That's right. And, and realizing. You're not a bad mom because you're having these different feelings.

You're sad. Yeah. If [00:17:00] you're sad or, yeah.

[00:17:00] Diane Matthews: And some people just don't love the infant stage, you know? I know for me, I, I did love, you know, the infant stage, not as much as I loved the toddler stage. So even it was a little awkward for me. So like even the first baths. For each one of my kids. Hank did that because it just wasn't, it, it just didn't feel as natural for me.

I'm doing the video while Hank's doing the baths, so I wouldn't beat yourself up over it if that's not where you feel real comfortable, you know? So, yeah, it's kind of, some phases are awkward for you. Don't, don't feel bad about that. You know, different people. Are going to naturally love different seasons or different phases, don't you, don't you think?

[00:17:46] Leslie Corbell: Well, I think God certainly equips us to have different, different gifts mm-hmm. And for different seasons and so yeah. It's wonderful. You can rely on, you know, work with your spouse Yes. To, um, both pour into the child.

[00:17:59] Diane Matthews: Yes. [00:18:00] So what if you have a spouse that doesn't help?

[00:18:05] Leslie Corbell: Communication if, if they're, if they can help and aren't maybe working together to find out some plan.

You know, identifying what the challenge is and coming up with a plan together to navigate that time of day.

[00:18:17] Diane Matthews: Nowadays, some of the dads can get off work for four, six weeks. Mm-hmm. And some, you know, like Hank. I think he took off for all four of my kids. Maybe two days.

[00:18:30] Leslie Corbell: Yeah.

[00:18:30] Diane Matthews: In total. You know, 'cause we have, have our own business.

[00:18:34] Leslie Corbell: Yeah. And so did you find help in, within your church community? Or where did you find help? Yes,

[00:18:38] Diane Matthews: yes I did. And my mother-in-law came for a little bit. Um, let's see. What about breastfeeding or bottle feeding?

[00:18:45] Leslie Corbell: Yeah, I think there too. Just got that whole idea of. You can have the best plans and they may not go the way you wanted them to.

I've talked to several young women lately who have had challenges. Yeah. And maybe even they've, they have several children [00:19:00] and some they breastfed, some they bottle fed. Some they, you know, they, everyone was a different journey and kind of knowing that you're gonna get through that and your child's gonna come on the other side.

Right. As long as they're gaining weight and being healthy to not burden yourself when things don't go the way as planned. That's right. And

[00:19:18] Diane Matthews: don't feel shame because there's a lot of, yeah. Yeah. I don't know about your mom, but when my mom was young, if you breastfed. You were poor. You know, the, the people who breastfed just didn't have any money.

Mm-hmm. You know, it wasn't the cool thing to do at all. Right. You did formulas. Yeah. That's what everybody did back then

[00:19:36] Leslie Corbell: and, and I don't know whether that was, like you're saying marketing and formula companies come along. Sure. It was marketing selling that. That was certainly, but I know that now most parents, if they are able to, if they can seem to, you know, would want to breastfeed for their nutrition for the health of their baby, but just I think my encouragement would be.

It doesn't always go like clockwork. Absolutely. And I've talked to more women who are experiencing [00:20:00] challenges than, than aren't experiencing challenges. Yeah. That can be hard. Just do the best you can and keep letting your child thrive. Yeah. Just And getting the nutrition they need. That's right. And not hang your hat completely on that.

That's right. They have wonderful

[00:20:16] Diane Matthews: formula.

[00:20:17] Leslie Corbell: Yes. I'm gonna say information. I know a lot of moms formula. Who pump and um Oh yeah. Pump and bottle feed. Yeah. Sleep. What about sleepless sleep? Oh, sleep. Yeah. Sleep is rare. Commodity with a newborn and you

[00:20:31] Diane Matthews: didn't require a whole lot. Uh, this, that always amazes me with you.

[00:20:35] Leslie Corbell: I'm a light sleeper, so that was helpful because I awakened easily, but I went back to sleep easily too.

[00:20:40] Diane Matthews: Yes.

[00:20:41] Leslie Corbell: So, but yeah, it, it is. Naps. I mean, have someone coming over to watch the baby while you nap, if that's available. If not trying to nap when the baby naps. And you did that for your daughter? You were for Oh, every afternoon I would go over, yes, I heard a nap.

How helpful. And I'd like to say it was completely [00:21:00] altruistic, but my goodness. Oh, I have to sit here for a couple hours and hold a newborn. Oh. Poor me. Poor you. Poor you.

[00:21:07] Diane Matthews: Yeah. It's pretty special. Yeah, that is. That is great. But I will say this, this is a God thing. I wasn't a light sleeper, but when I gave birth to children.

My ears. Heard my kids. Yeah. I was always awake. I could always hear their voices. They're crying, they're whimpering anything. I was up and I could always go back to sleep, but yeah. Yeah. I thought that was a God thing that he just puts into Yeah. A mom. It's

[00:21:31] Leslie Corbell: pretty cool. One thing that I know some, um, parents do is they take turns.

So like one night will be one. Mm-hmm. Rather than take turns with the feeding, taking a night. Oh. And so this night I'm gonna take care of. Of the child tomorrow night's, your night.

[00:21:46] Diane Matthews: Yeah. And if both parents are working mm-hmm. That's probably a good way to do it. Mm-hmm. You know, if mom's staying at home in maybe a weekend or, or something like that.

Mm-hmm. But, but sleep's important.[00:22:00]

[00:22:02] Leslie Corbell: As we end this conversation, you know, one thing to think about, it's such a short season, that newborn who is so precious that first week as you're adjusting and that second week and that third week, and that really until that sixth week when you are, when your body's healed and you're finally through things, you know that six weeks is a good window to think about.

By that point, another season has started. If we can be fully in that, whether it's with joy, sadness with joy, and fear, with joy in whatever is accompanying it, just completely wrap yourself into it and know that this is just for a short time. 'cause this too shall

[00:22:44] Diane Matthews: pass.

[00:22:44] Leslie Corbell: Yes, I know. Looking back, the thing that you carry with you through the decades is the joy.

Not the sorrow or the fear.

[00:22:53] Diane Matthews: Oh Lord. Thank you for babies. We just thank you Lord and we give it all to you, and it's [00:23:00] in your name. We just praise you. Amen.

[00:23:02] Leslie Corbell: Thanks for listening. Check out our Instagram at the Mind of a Child Pod, or you can email us at the Mind of a Child podcast@gmail.com.